Khilafat is a failed concept

[Pakistani Boy]

Here are some historical facts on Khilafat:

1) Ummah was spit on the appointment of the first Khalif

2) Third Khalif was murdered and some people put the blame on the 4th Khalif

3) The wife of the Prophet and some sahaba created the first civil war in Islam

4) Another civil war occured in the time of the 4th Khalif

5) The 4th Khalif was murdered while praying

6) The 5th Khalif was forced to give up his rule

7) The 6th Khalif went against his agreement with the 5th Khalif in appointing his son as the hier to his rule. There after khalifhat become a kingdom.

8) The 7th Khalif had the family of the prophet killed. And to prove his rule he had the head of the Prophet's grandson sent to all corners of this Kingdom. This is the very same grandson who use to ride on the Prophets sholders.

Khilafat failed Islam from day one. It was and for everwill be a tool to exercise political power. Its better that Muslims should not seek a better alternative, one which does not concentrate all power in the hands of a single person.

"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutly"

[buksh26]

I believe you are missing the point here....inspite of all the things you have mentioned the point you cannot argue is that Islam as a system was implemented throughout.

The system of Islam is divine however its implemented by human beings and subsequently you will always find such cases where the ruler gets killed or assasinated. I mean the enemy would use any means to perform such acts and again there would be people within the Islamic State who undertake such acts of injustice.

Look at the current climate. There is a huge gap between the leaders and the people. The leaders are not looking after the affairs of their people and more so these same leaders are implementing kufr upon the people. This sort of division between the people and the leaders is not only justified but a must. In such cases the Muslims needs to pull up their socks and shoulder the responsibilty to remove the kufr system which includes the leaders from our heads.

The points you mentioned, is a narrow view to look at the situation and draw conclusions upon it.

[Islamic Revival]

Well said Brother Buksh26. I wonder where Pakistani Boy has disappeared to. He has not even tried to defend his arguments.

My initial comments to add are:

1. When we are commanded to act by Allah (swt) in a certain way, as in the case of establishing the Khilafah, then it doesn't matter whether we think it may 'fail' or not.

By Pakistani Boy's logic, we could say that the concept of 'salah' has failed because a high percentage of people find it difficult to pray all 5 prayers every day of their lives!

The reality is that we are human, and our implementation of Allah's (swt) divine laws may not always be perfect, but that is no reason to disregard Allah's (swt) hikmah and His (swt) law. Rather we should aim to improve our implementation of His (swt) law.

2. Pakistani Boy claims that Khilafah was a 'failed concept'. Then how was it that the system of Khilafah was one of the longest running systems of governance ever, lasting for nearly 1400 years, spanning continents?

3. Pakistani Boy says since so many of the Khalifs were murdered or were present at times of war' that Muslims should 'seek a better alternative'. I would like to know what he proposes. Which system in the world has been devoid of assassination attempts on its leader or devoid of wars? Does he look to the US which has a record number of assassination attempts on its Presidents and a record number of participation in wars?


InshAllah I will wait for his answers before posting any more.

[buksh26]

if i were you, i wouldn't hold my breath.

[Shades]

When the son of the first man, killed the son of first man, the concept of humanity didn't failed.

Khilafat is not all abt one person, it is a complete system that effects all dimensions of the society.

One can't use the murder of one person, or a mistake of one person to negate an entire system- that nurtures a unique political, social and economic system within itself.

[Pakistani Boy]

Sorry for the delay in posting but I have been travelling through Pakistan.

It is interesting you have glossed over my initial post and the events (that I brought to your notice) which occurred during the reigns of the 4 “rightly guided khalifs”. My point to note was that they did not occur between Muslims and non-Muslims but rather between early Muslims. During the Hazrat Ali’s Khalifat the two civil wars which were instigated and supported by Muawiyah and Hazrat Ayaisha, one bring a future khalif and the other the wife of the Prophet (PBUH). Clearly, they did not believe in the concept of khalifat, as a position to which all muslims are expected to submit. Or you have to accept one of the two options; Muawiyah and Ayisha broke their bayat to Ali, or that they did not do give it in the first place?

Secondly what is meant by the term rightly guided, does that imply that those khalifs which were to follow were not rightly guided? And who was guiding the rightly guided khalifs, was it the Allah? If these khalifs where guided by the supreme being was this guidance not acknowledged by the other muslims, particularly the future khalifs and the wife of the Prophet (through whom a lot of hadith is transmitted). In this regards Mawayia did not believe in the concept of his predecessors being “rightly guided” otherwise he would have not put into practice the ritual of cursing Ali during Juma sermons.

And the question that you have failed to address is what about those Khalifs who went against the basic tenants of Islam, should the Muslim ummah be obliged to stay committed to such tyrants who also happened to be a khalif? Clearly, not, otherwise Hazrat Hussein (Leader of the Youth of Heaven-according to the Prophets Sunnah) would not have rejected Yazid (Khalifs) demands for bayhia. Hussein’s rejection of Yazid’s khalifhat (even though he was appointed by Muawiya himself) proves the fact that Khalifat and Islamic guidance did not necessarily have to reside with one individual.

So the point is that Khalifat is primarily a political designation, and after the “rightly guided” khalifs any religious authority retained by this position also ended. The Islamic empire was like any other empire based on political and economic motives, and when the underlying circumstances which gave rise to those motives changed the empire fell apart. If it had been under pinned by true Islamic principles (which are universal) then we would still have the empire today.

And as for your demands for a present day Khalif, well Mullah Umar appointed himself Amir-al-Momineen but was last seen escaping the battle field on a 70cc Honda.

Muslims have more pressing concerns to worry about, like fighting fundamentalism, educations our masses, improving our standards of living. Rather than reviving a concept which has failed continuously.

And before I forget, khalifat and salat cannot and should be compared, one is a important ritual while the other is a political position.

[buksh26]

salaams,

lemme go over your points again!

pakistani boy wrote:
1) Ummah was spit on the appointment of the first Khalif

Ummah was not split on the appointment of the first Khalif. If you seem to think so then substantiate your claim.

2) Third Khalif was murdered and some people put the blame on the 4th Khalif

The leaders are always in danger of getting killed and people say alot of things. What exactly is your point here? I mean what historical points are you trying to make here??

3) The wife of the Prophet and some sahaba created the first civil war in Islam

Its not soo simple as you put it. Islamic State is a State for human beings and not for angels. There will always going to be incidents bound to occur but do we say that because of actions of such and such the entire system is not practical? If we say this then we are also implying that Allah(swt) revealed a system to Rasool(saw) which is impractical?!? are we in a position to draw such naive conclusions? Why would Allah(swt) revealed a system life which only meant to last for few years?? this does not make any sense....

4) Another civil war occured in the time of the 4th Khalif

and your point is....? There always going to problems faced by the State.

5) The 4th Khalif was murdered while praying

what does this has to do with anything??? there always going to be people against the ruling party.

6) The 5th Khalif was forced to give up his rule

If you study the matter you'll find that muawiyah was a governor for over 20 years and this helped him to attain alot of support of the people and as a result due to some differences of opinion went against Hazrat Ali(ra). But with going further into the details the laws and legislation which were implemented were all Islamic.

There is a Hadith where Rasool(saw) said that "If you are united under one ruler(One khalifa) and another one comes and disputes the authority of first then kill the second one".

Now in ideal case the above hadith applies if anyone disputes the authority of the Khalifa while he is implementing Islam. But again there will be cases when the khalifa himself is not in a position to enforce such measures due to difficult circumstances.

7) The 6th Khalif went against his agreement with the 5th Khalif in appointing his son as the hier to his rule. There after khalifhat become a kingdom.

The matter of kinship is not the right procedure to follow when appointing the khalif. Also there is difference of opinion amongst the ulema where some say that if the ruler comes into power by force and he implements Islam then his authority is legal ie depending upon the situation if fighting the authority of the khalifa who can into power by force would cause bloodshed then its better not to fight against him because this will cause more harm then good however if the khalifa is implementing kufr upon the people ie ruling by other than what Allah(swt) has revealed then the Muslims are ordered to fight against him until he is removed.

8) The 7th Khalif had the family of the prophet killed. And to prove his rule he had the head of the Prophet's grandson sent to all corners of this Kingdom. This is the very same grandson who use to ride on the Prophets sholders. TEXT

Again, there will always be power struggle. Now the point should be stressed that the Muslim are the ones who are responsible for there Islam ie they prevent such things from happening..

Khilafat failed Islam from day one. It was and for everwill be a tool to exercise political power. Its better that Muslims should not seek a better alternative, one which does not concentrate all power in the hands of a single person.

Very dangerous to have such mentality. Rasool(saw) showed us a system and this system is the only system worthy of being implemented because its from Allah(swt). I am not sure what kind of books are you reading but such opinions are exactly what the kuffar like us to accept and believe.

pakistani boy wrote:
"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutly"

If you are referring the above statement to the khilafah system then I got one question for you; Who are you to say such things? Tell me!

Are you challenging the system which was brought by our beloved Rasool(saw)? Are you rejecting the summah of the Prophet(saw)?

If Islam is not a practical system for us to follow then what alternative do you have? Haven't you've seen enough divestation around the world caused by the man made systems??? freedom and democracy are very nice words however they seem not very nice when they reach your borders and stealing your resources and leaving nothing behind....if you don't know what i am talking about then just look at places like South America/Africa/Asia, so many countries are being robbed of there resources in the name of freedom and democracy. Are you suggesting that this is the way forward for the humanity. Would Rasool(saw) be content with living under such man made oppression?

Islam provides a unique system of life and we as Muslims should study not only certain parts of Islamic history but also the Islamic system itself so we understand the practicality of the Islamic system and comprehend the dynamics of this divine system of life. We are talking of 1300 years of Islamic rule and the world civilisation benefitted from the Islamic civilisation and when Muslims living under the Islamic State were studying the stars, Europe was living in dark ages. Such contrast was due to the system whcih was implemented. Muslims were scientist and scholars at the same time. Do we see such people anywhere these days???

Rasool(saw) is not only an example for us in Namaz but also in other aspects of life. Namaz is fard and implementing Allah's(swt) deen is fard. Namaz is an individual fard and implementing Islam is a collective fard. If we pray and think that we have done enough then we serioursly ignoring the commandments of Allah(swt) of ruling by what Allah(swt) has revealed.

We need to familiarise ourselves to the Islamic systems and then draw conclusion/s later.

[hanah]

buksh26 said:

salaams,

lemme go over your points again!

pakistani boy wrote:
1) Ummah was spit on the appointment of the first Khalif

Ummah was not split on the appointment of the first Khalif. If you seem to think so then substantiate your claim.

2) Third Khalif was murdered and some people put the blame on the 4th Khalif

The leaders are always in danger of getting killed and people say alot of things. What exactly is your point here? I mean what historical points are you trying to make here??

3) The wife of the Prophet and some sahaba created the first civil war in Islam

Its not soo simple as you put it. Islamic State is a State for human beings and not for angels. There will always going to be incidents bound to occur but do we say that because of actions of such and such the entire system is not practical? If we say this then we are also implying that Allah(swt) revealed a system to Rasool(saw) which is impractical?!? are we in a position to draw such naive conclusions? Why would Allah(swt) revealed a system life which only meant to last for few years?? this does not make any sense....

4) Another civil war occured in the time of the 4th Khalif

and your point is....? There always going to problems faced by the State.

5) The 4th Khalif was murdered while praying

what does this has to do with anything??? there always going to be people against the ruling party.

6) The 5th Khalif was forced to give up his rule

If you study the matter you'll find that muawiyah was a governor for over 20 years and this helped him to attain alot of support of the people and as a result due to some differences of opinion went against Hazrat Ali(ra). But with going further into the details the laws and legislation which were implemented were all Islamic.

There is a Hadith where Rasool(saw) said that "If you are united under one ruler(One khalifa) and another one comes and disputes the authority of first then kill the second one".

Now in ideal case the above hadith applies if anyone disputes the authority of the Khalifa while he is implementing Islam. But again there will be cases when the khalifa himself is not in a position to enforce such measures due to difficult circumstances.

7) The 6th Khalif went against his agreement with the 5th Khalif in appointing his son as the hier to his rule. There after khalifhat become a kingdom.

The matter of kinship is not the right procedure to follow when appointing the khalif. Also there is difference of opinion amongst the ulema where some say that if the ruler comes into power by force and he implements Islam then his authority is legal ie depending upon the situation if fighting the authority of the khalifa who can into power by force would cause bloodshed then its better not to fight against him because this will cause more harm then good however if the khalifa is implementing kufr upon the people ie ruling by other than what Allah(swt) has revealed then the Muslims are ordered to fight against him until he is removed.

8) The 7th Khalif had the family of the prophet killed. And to prove his rule he had the head of the Prophet's grandson sent to all corners of this Kingdom. This is the very same grandson who use to ride on the Prophets sholders. TEXT

Again, there will always be power struggle. Now the point should be stressed that the Muslim are the ones who are responsible for there Islam ie they prevent such things from happening..

Khilafat failed Islam from day one. It was and for everwill be a tool to exercise political power. Its better that Muslims should not seek a better alternative, one which does not concentrate all power in the hands of a single person.

Very dangerous to have such mentality. Rasool(saw) showed us a system and this system is the only system worthy of being implemented because its from Allah(swt). I am not sure what kind of books are you reading but such opinions are exactly what the kuffar like us to accept and believe.

pakistani boy wrote:
"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutly"

If you are referring the above statement to the khilafah system then I got one question for you; Who are you to say such things? Tell me!

Are you challenging the system which was brought by our beloved Rasool(saw)? Are you rejecting the summah of the Prophet(saw)?

If Islam is not a practical system for us to follow then what alternative do you have? Haven't you've seen enough divestation around the world caused by the man made systems??? freedom and democracy are very nice words however they seem not very nice when they reach your borders and stealing your resources and leaving nothing behind....if you don't know what i am talking about then just look at places like South America/Africa/Asia, so many countries are being robbed of there resources in the name of freedom and democracy. Are you suggesting that this is the way forward for the humanity. Would Rasool(saw) be content with living under such man made oppression?

Islam provides a unique system of life and we as Muslims should study not only certain parts of Islamic history but also the Islamic system itself so we understand the practicality of the Islamic system and comprehend the dynamics of this divine system of life. We are talking of 1300 years of Islamic rule and the world civilisation benefitted from the Islamic civilisation and when Muslims living under the Islamic State were studying the stars, Europe was living in dark ages. Such contrast was due to the system whcih was implemented. Muslims were scientist and scholars at the same time. Do we see such people anywhere these days???

Rasool(saw) is not only an example for us in Namaz but also in other aspects of life. Namaz is fard and implementing Allah's(swt) deen is fard. Namaz is an individual fard and implementing Islam is a collective fard. If we pray and think that we have done enough then we serioursly ignoring the commandments of Allah(swt) of ruling by what Allah(swt) has revealed.

We need to familiarise ourselves to the Islamic systems and then draw conclusion/s later.

Assalamaulykum W.W

I would just like to say jazakallah for correcting the brothers misunderstandings. Sad to say we have come to a TIME, where we assume the ones regarding whom Our beloved Prophet SAW spoke about being amongst the ASHRA MUBASH SHIRAH(GIVEN GLAD TIDINGS OF JANNAH) are ones to be looked down upon. Subhanallah
May ALLAH guide us all to attain his eternal pleasure ALONE!