Cross cultural marriages

[Azfar Qureshi]

Islam is a comprehensive solution to man's problem. Marriage is also one of the fundamental human relationships in the society Islam places extensive emphasis on. It is unfortunately that after being a universal ideology cross-cultural or inter-race marriages still remain a tabboo in the muslim world. Let alone marrying reverted muslims.
While on the other hand, we dont similar problem in capitalist west. mixed race are very common in US and UK.

Is it a good idea to marry in other muslim communities or even reverted muslim. If yes how can different values systems & social norms and at time contradictory attitudes co-exists?

If islam can't bring two individuals together in a permanent bond how can it bring different nations, races and religions under the singular rule Khilafah state?

Can anyone elobrate on this particular issue?

Do post your opinions esp. reverted brothers and sisters.

jazakallah khair..

[maruf]

As-salaamu ‘alaykum!

I do not know if I totally agree with your statements, but let me address each one separately.

You said:


It is unfortunately that after being a universal ideology cross-cultural or inter-race marriages still remain a tabboo in the muslim world. Let alone marrying reverted muslims.


I agree that it is unfortunate that Muslims divide themselves (and ourselves since we are a part of this Ummah) on the basis on Nationalism. This is indeed true, and I have heard many complaints from brothers (I was a part of this group) mostly (I do not know what sisters think), and mostly convert Brothers (revert has not moved on me yet). However, I have seen quite a few brothers (born with Muslim parents) marry outside of their culture and marry converts as well. It is very common for Arab brothers to have married white convert sisters for some reason in the U.S. I will say that it is harder for Muslims (Arabs, Indians, etc.) to marry black converts. I think the reason is that blacks, unfortunately, have a lower status in the West compared with other non-black groups. So, indeed this stuff is hurtful and wrong. We all should be aware of the Hadith by the Prophet (saw) indicating that we should use tawqa as a criteria over anything thing else (beauty, wealth, or social status).

In addition, I see many examples of Muslims marrying cross culturally, myself included. In fact, as I said above, it seems that if Muslims marry cross culturally, one spouse is usually a convert. I have heard Muslims say that they preferred converts because of the enthusiasm for the deen they showed (Allahu’alim).


Any one who understands the fall our Ummah, should know that the Western Powers created nationalism, secularism, and fatalism within our Ummah. Our Ummah is not revived, so we have to work for its unity and revival by re-establishing Khilafah.



You said:

While on the other hand, we dont similar problem in capitalist west. mixed race are very common in US and UK.


I beg to differ here. I do not know how it is in the UK, but people here are still segregated, and thus do not marry outside of their whiteness or blackness. Racism is still a hidden reality in the West. There is still a superiority complex in the sub consciousness of white people (and inferiority complex in black people). I can send you some info if you would like. First, they do not have an aqeedah that would tell them that Allah created all human beings, and how they should live and treat these human beings. All that they have is their horrible history and policies. And, in order for non-whites to be accepted, they have to loose their culture and assimilate into the dominant white culture. This is not cross cultural; it is mono cultural to be accepted.

Accepting Islaam allows the insignificant racial barriers to be broken, that is at least for the believer.


You said:


Is it a good idea to marry in other muslim communities or even reverted muslim. If yes how can different values systems & social norms and at time contradictory attitudes co-exists?


I would say that it symbolizes that indeed Islaam can melt people. It is common sense to see how this builds bridges toward unity (the Prophet (saw) did it to bring tribes together). It is very beautiful to see Filipino and Blacks, Mexican and Black, Pakistani and White, Pakistani and Black, Mexican and Arab Muslim couples together (and their mixed children), (as I have seen). We all know that Islam is an ideology, not a race like the Jews. Having many colors, races, and ethnicities in the fold of Islaam helps people to see how universal Islaam is.

Now, outside of this common sense, it is up to the family and couple to make this decision. People usually marry because they like the potential partner (some degree of physical attractiveness is needed, but does not have to be primary). If a marriage has been arranged, chances are it will be intercultural for obvious reasons.

The values and norms should first be filtered by Islaam. Thus, this should create harmony in itself, however as we have discussed Muslims have been influenced by unIslaamic concepts that have affected our whims and personalities. The attitudes should be Islaamic. After this, the couple should strive to learn more about each others background and culture, not so that they can take each other down, no, so they can but build each other up. The convert will definitely have baggage (things he/she brought into Islaam), but he/she should be willing to acknowledge this and move towards an Islaamic personality. My point here is that the cultural differences can be worked out. I think the problems come in when arguments arise, then it is easy to blame the cultural differences instead of the gender (male vs. female) differences that all marriages have. I believe that things can be worked out, but like in any marriage or relationship, it takes work. I think most days you would forget about the cultural differences, it is only when people get angry, then we start to blame culture (forgetting that marriages of the same culture sometimes have problems and fail, culture had nothing to do with it, it was the individuals involved.)



And finally, you said:


If islam can't bring two individuals together in a permanent bond how can it bring different nations, races and religions under the singular rule Khilafah state?


It can, and Insha will. This is not a choice (unlike marrying someone from a different culture or marrying more than one woman). Once the Khilafah is declared, it is an obligation for Muslims to unify and obey the Khalifah.

But outside of this, Muslims want Islaam in general, marriage is a detail of Islaam. Muslims may not fully understand that they should not discriminate (Many Muslims justify their discrimination saying that their family would be hurt or not be able to communicate with the spouse). This does not mean that they would like to see their black sister raped or black brother killed by the enemies of Islaam. This does not believe that they do not want to have the political unity of the Ummah. Many people (including Muslims) are influenced by their environment, once the filthy environment has been removed, and Muslims have been reminded of their Deen, we would see less discrimination and racism. It is one thing to talk to a brother about the need for khilafah (he might be willing to listen) but talking about marrying his Indian or Arab daughter really tests his Islaam and his Islaamic personality (if he has one, including us). They are not always related, and because the Ummah has been poison with kufr concepts, until we have been revived under Islaam you cannot expect this coming together. We see living under the Khilafah as the only tool that will eventually filter out the kufr and replace it with Iman, Insha Allah.

[Islamic Revival]

JazakAllah khair Br. Maruf for your insightful post. The inter-racial marriages I've seen (not really that many) where both partners are practising muslims and clear in their islamic concepts, seem to run quite smoothly (or at least as smoothly as same-race marriages).


If both partners have clear Islamic concepts, then maybe problems would arise if the respective families are not clear in their ideas. Just a thought.

[Azfar Qureshi]

jazakallah khair for ur ensightful reply..
capitalist binds man with man on the bond of benefit..
Bond of masliha is weakest of bonds which is last as long as the benefit last.
Marriage in capitalism is based on same bond ie. satisfy the human sexual, monetary or social need irrespective of caste or creed. So from capitalist point of view race is of lill or no consequence for an individual.

Racism is a political phenomena based on animal instinct of tribalism which is also found in monkeys, dogs etc. where they fight to protect thier territory, possesion etc. which appears in case of external threat.

Capitalism is only a temporary bond which allows 'individuals' to come together on the basis of benefit but cease to exists when benefit disappears. When mind doesn't have a solutions instincts takes over. So, we see that though US UK allows immigrants from different continents to account for skills or labours but fails to bind them without benefit.

So, marriages amongst races in an ideological society is not an issue from an individual point of view. Yet for non-ideological citizens in capitalists societies this is racism is apparent. Racism is not a capitalist phenomena rather an instinct. Which reveals the extent of capitalist civilizations.

In recent riots in France, and in bradford (UK) earlier, capitalist government clamp down severely on racism. British government recently chalked out anti-racism..

Islam is the true ideology which binds man with man not in a volatile bond of benefit, rather on the basis of comprehensive ideology, which is perpetual. Yet, ppl are not always robots there can be lapses. It has been reported that one of the jews of medina incited feud amongst Aus and khizraj (ansars who transfer the power to islam in medina). Once a sahabi called bilal "son of black woman". Prophet SAW than rebuke him saying: "u still have filth of kufr in ur head." That sahabi since that day on always dressed in cloths of slaves.
So, Racism was always there just like our instincts. But, the point is that, today, nationalism is injected in ummah by governments with slogans of "pakistan first", "jordan first" and "British first". More over, arabs sisters in moslem world cant marry a pakistani or indian brother legally!!!!
indian moslem cant marry a pakistani moslem. Lets face it....
Racism exists whenever there is ideological lapses either by design or default..
For us moslem, its imperative to go agaisnt this racist tabboo by encouraging inter-culture marriages and work to re-establish khilafah.. As State is the only means to crystalise the ideology in the masses..

May allah swt has mercy on this noble ummah and give us the khilafah state soon, Ameen ya rabbal alameen.

[Islamic Revival]

Br. Azfar. Your entire post makes sense to me, except that I don't know where prejudice/racism fits then within the capitalist ideology. We can see that both prejudice and racism are there, present in all capitalist societies, then why does it occur?

[azfar]

Salam, What i m trying to convey is that racism has nothing to do with ideology, its an instinct innate in man. So, we find it in Capitalist, communist or even in moslem society. just like we have adulterary or corruption cas they emanates from human instincts. We shouldnt be biased to or for one ideology and must think outta box in order to seek truth.

Capitalism tries patch work for man's problem while islam provides comprehensive solution. Without Islamic State Ummahs true face will remain scared with triablism, racism etc.

Plot is that what can be possible conflicts and disagreements between spouse esp. because of cultural differences and differences in expectations?

[maruf]

If I understand what you are saying, I disagree with it.

1. The Ideology of Islaam speaks to the racial issue or self-preservation instinct. Islaam (Allah) says that the best among you is the one who has Taqwah. Islaam teaches unity of the Ummah. "Indeed the believers are one brotherhood." Islaam says you are a Muslim if you accept this creed. Islaam declares that the loyalty belongs to Allah and Islaam.


2. The Capitalist Ideology, similar to democracy, is based on the minds of men (divorced from religion or God). Capitalism, in itself, puts a value on profit and does not exhort one to have feelings of brotherhood or unity. In fact, it encourages division (as Marx said of it based on class) by saying that it is good to have money, status, capital as a value over anything else (including brotherhood). The Capitalist's motive is to earn profit in the face of misery of the poor (working or non-working). This in itself encourages division. Race has been used to determine who is in the IN GROUP (benefits the most from capitalism), and who is in the OUT GROUP (who suffers). I will give you one concrete example here. Did you know that realtors play on the fears of Whites when it comes to property values and race? When more than 20% of your neighborhood is Black, the property values go down. So, if I am a white person, and I care only about my investment (my money), then I would want to live in a neighborhood that is exclusively white, even if I am not an overt racists, I would be a passive racists. This is because Capitalism has defined my value in life. The value of the ideology is profit over brotherhood, morality, God, you name it.

Therefore, although capitalism is not the cause of racism, it plays an important role. Immigrants (Muslims included) have wanted to be in the in-group (professional, middle class, certainly on the benefit side of capitalism). This in itself would make some brothers not want to be associated, not want their daughter to marry the out-group (in most cases the Blacks).

Thus, we can say that Capitalism benefits non-people of color, and that it promotes disunity and selfishness, which makes one think only of their group, and maybe only of their family. Yet another way capitalism plays in racism is by not giving a value as to why you should look beyond your tribe or individuality.

Capitalism gives us a social value of materialism. It teaches the hoarding of wealth and capital in the face of object poverty, while Islaam teaches distribution of wealth and giving to the poor. When we give to the poor (if they are from a different tribe, race, color, etc.) this sends a message that I care about others (maybe even outside of my tribe or race), this creates brotherhood, which reduces racism.

In terms of superiority (which forms of racism can be based, especially in the West), we know that Islaam discourages this. Even when we pray, we pray in a straight line regardless of one's social status or race. Whereas Capitalism thrives on this social status division to make, people want to achieve status and division, signifying they are in the IN Class. Simply put, Capitalism promotes and fosters class and race division, especially as seen in the West.

In addition, we cannot compare the current Muslim countries with the capitalistic ones because Islaam as an ideology is not being implemented holistically.

Believe me, Islaam is not silent on the issue, or racism as the corrupt ideology of man called capitalism is. Even if an ideology is silent on an issue, does not mean that will not affect the people. Silence in itself is a value.

[azfar]

Akhi, I dont understand where do v differ

[maruf]

You said:
What i m trying to convey is that racism has nothing to do with ideology, its an instinct innate in man. So, we find it in Capitalist, communist or even in moslem society. just like we have adulterary or corruption cas they emanates from human instincts. We shouldnt be biased to or for one ideology and must think outta box in order to seek truth.


What I am trying to do is to emphasize (explicitly) that it is the ideology of Capitalism that promotes racism, where as the ideology of Islaam diminishes racism. As Muslims, we do in fact take a position for our ideology, not blindly of course, but intellectually for we know that it comes from Allah. Racism, definitely has something to do with the ideology of Capitalism, for it promotes it.


was-salaam

[azfar]

Ididnt say that islam doesnt dimishes racism or capitalism doesnt encourages it. The point is that in order to address any human problem. it has to be understood comprehensively rather emotionaly or with any biases. If a problem is not understood, the treatment will be incorrect.

Irrespective of being a moslem or non-moslem, we are humans first. Islam's subject is man, not just moslems. If we ignore the fact, we wont be able to address the issue comprehensively.
We are abt to take the leadership of the ummah. And this tribal instinct or bonds based on it (nationalism, arabism, pakistaniism, indianism, whiteism, blackism etc.) needs to be erased from ummahs hearts and minds.

u r missing plot akhi..